Sudarshan Sanyal
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India Honest suggests that once we have completed our attempt of " Know your India", the time has come to start "Know Your Indians" and as that will be much relevant in the coming time, and Face Book discussion is the best forum to do that. And the debate on Face Book goes on like this :
Husyn Sherik: ISIS will never dare to attack India from outside but, don't forget we have a sizeable population of PEACEFULS who are very much capable of pushing the nation to a Civil war, in short Gazwa e Hind Part II
Sudarshan Sanyal : Have faith in our strong government and our Army, any attempt whether from outside or inside, will be nipped at the bud.
Sujit Sanyal : for one do believe that if they had the slightest opportunity, they will. Now I have no doubt that the defense forces and the intelligence community must be keeping a strict tab on all these terrorists and are doing their best to prevent any attempts by them. But they had been doing the same before the Indian Parliament attack and the Mumbai Taj attack haven't they? However I do agree that these are serious threats to innocent people the world over, the bulk of whom fall prey to terrorist attacks. That is a good reason not to rumor news about it to play political football for suiting one's personal agenda.
Husyn Sherik : The nation may have to face another 1947.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Our Intelligence authorities have learned many a lesson from the past and they are in war footing now, so, be rest assured, no such thing will happen in future.
Satabdi Rc : ^^ Hope so smile emoticon
Sudarshan Sanyal : ^^ If I don't believe so, then I don't have faith in my new Govt.
Husyn Sherik :Their plan is to reduce India to the size of Israel...
Sujit Sanyal : "The nation may have to face another 1947" --- that to me sounds more like fear mongering rather than constructive concern. Why? Because that observation, points the finger inwards than outwards, the subject of the thread. That is however not to say, that we don't have Mir Jafars amongst us. I think too many people at the helm sell India out on a daily basis. Maybe the term Mir Jaffar needs a replacement? Just kidding ...
Masud Khan: I agree with you Sudarshan Sanyal dada. I like to take this opportunity to add that now it's well published in the media that ISIS is the creation of US and Israel to achieve their vested interest in the region, one among them is regime change in Syria. Please look at different media outlets, not only the Western ones.
Sujit Sanyal : Sudarshan Sanyal - I can only pray that you are right. Do I, by any chance, read a hint that the slant of the current government is putting you on ease at least so far as this is concerned? Perhaps making you feel that the chalta-hai theek-hai regime is not in control? smile emoticon.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Spreading of rumor only helps in demoralizing the citizens of our country, instead of feeling proud of our strong nation.
Sujit Sanyal : True, but it also keeps the citizens alert and be situationally aware of the world around them.
Satabdi Rc : sharing a concern and spreading a rumour are not one and same.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Right, but spreading a rumor is spreading a rumor.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Sujit Sanyal, people are already alert through newspapers and television, now let us make them feel stronger as a nation.
Satabdi Rc : of course spreading a rumour in CL is not that easy I guess most of us are equipped/ educated not to be misled.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Let our Strength overcome our Fear through motivation.
Satabdi Rc : questioning ourselves and our potential is a healthy practice acc to me, it helps us to identify our weaknesses and start working on the same.
Masud Khan : That's good and useful but it's not healthy for the society to go after the Islamism so often. @ Satabdi Rc
Satabdi Rc :we can't deny that no matter how strong we feel there is always a scope to do better. smile emoticon
Satabdi Rc : Masud Khan saab ISIS is not Islam.
Sujit Sanyal: As for concern and rumor, it is impossible for the man on the street to know which is which. In diplomatic circles, you have selective leaks to pass information back and forth amongst the diplomatic corps as for subtle messages. But for the wo(man) walking the streets and whose live is invariably at great risk because it is him/her who always the high price, there is no nod-nod-wink-wink. True that too many rumors can be dangerous because then people get fed up of it and lowers their guard by ignoring them.
So what is the solution? That the government provides the people reliable alerts at appropriate times. Alerts which the common man would understand and be able to react - not a shayari or sorts. That of course implies that the "sleuths" themselves first be aware of the threat.
I find it amusing to read scare tactics used on this forum in regularity. Some of them are no doubt true but the sad thing is that fact and fiction are finely blended like Darjeeling and Assam tea, and then served so that a person or his/her party's agenda is served. That to me is annoying because it too shows callous disregard for the safety of the common man.
Masud Khan : But people are attaching them to Islam and Muslim always.
Satabdi Rc : only ISIS does all that ^^ in the name of Islam.
Sujit Sanyal: "of course spreading a rumour in CL is not that easy" --- I wouldn't bet my money on it. Though undeniably the average intelligence/IQ and worldly awareness is much higher than than the population out there, but that is no guarantee. I read too many posts by very intelligent and well read people, but when it comes to coming to a decision, they invariably wear their own colored glasses.
(Yes, you can say the same of me, and I can't deny it having made the statement myself in the first place, can I?)
Sujit Sanyal: "That's good and useful but it's not healthy for the society to go after the Islamism so often." --- We need to make up our minds first. This is becoming hilarious to me, speaking out of two corners of our mouths I mean. Once we are so fastidious about disowning the ISIS murderers as non Islamic and then the quote. ...Which one is it we are batting for?
Sujit Sanyal : "But people are attaching them to Islam and Muslim always." --- Unless my eyesight is failing, nobody on this thread till now, accused Islam for those murdering ISIS scums.Much as I would hate to read it, I know there are some people here on this fo...See More
Husyn Sherik Even Muslims begin to wake up to the fact that ISIS is real islamic and apply literally Islam… Egyptian TV Host Ibrahim Issa: Nobody Dares to Admit That ISIS Crimes Are Based on Islamic Sources. http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4773.htm
????????? ???? Can you give me some links where antinationals are spreading these? seems interesting!!!
????????? ???? ISIS might be fake islam but it is not that much fake as the profile of Ms. Satabdi Rc ..............
Shubhojit Kumar Ganguly: The attack will not be from outside but from within and there are high chances that it will be pre planned with those against and for working together.
Arindam Mandal :No matter how educated u are...u might fall victim of rumours..but we cant be rest assured just because of some self proclaimed liberal's assurance...especilly of a leftist...we must take adequate step to ensure our nation's security...we must do comb operation to suspicious places which are encumbered by minoritis..strict vigilance on borders..remember isis is a big threat...!!!!
Arindam Mandal :Shubhojit Kumar Ganguly u might be right...that is why we must have inteligence movements around ghettos and localities encumbered by minorities..even external terrorist might take refuge to those localities....
Susovan Maity: indian troops probably already figthing there ......
Sujit Sanyal : "we must do comb operation to suspicious places which are encumbered by minoritis." --- So I am to conclude that "majority" by definition, cannot be criminals who need to be watched over? Let me play the devil's advocate ... have we all watched the mo...See More
Sarbani Roychakraborty : What about the growing number of ISIS sympathizers within the country?
Arindam Mandal : SeeSujit Sanyal we are talking about Isis threat here..so chances are their sympathizers will be in minority locality or more specically in muslim dominated ghettos..we need to focus sometimes or it is impossible to search and vigil everywhere...otherwise we might dilute the case..if post were talking about hindu extremism i would definitely shift the focus of vigilance to other localities and leave the muslim dominated areas safely. !!!
Manzar Khan : How many sympathizers have u yet met or identified?@Sarbani
Susovan Maity .......... Swann takes on the central issue of whether or not ISIS was created by "inaction" by the United States government or by "direct" action.'
Sarbani Roychakraborty : To present a fact does anyone nd personal meetings?
Suman Paul : For a country like India, its hard to attack from outside... But another 26/11 is definitely on the card... Our defence may be strong, but internal security system have some serious flaws... With so many muslim youths being recruited to ISIS from India as well as through out the world, there will be a potential jihadi at every corner of the world, even after the demolition of ISIS...
Masud Khan:"That's good and useful but it's not healthy for the society to go after the Islamism so often." - I meant self-criticism is good and useful but criminal activities in the name of religion shouldn't be related to religion. But consciously or unconsciously we 're doing this including in this forum if not in this thread. There are a few people in this forum also who are often trying to find faults with Islam. That's what I tried to indicate. "But people are attaching them to Islam and Muslims always." - I meant it happens though it may not be true to this particular thread.
Satabdi Rc : ????????? ???? I operate from an anonymous ID its not a 'FAKE ID'. therz difference between the two. One may portray on his fb profile that he stays somewhere in California but actually he might be staying somewhere in a slum in howrah, or in a Chawl in Mumbai, who knows?
Masud Khan : India might have threats from Kashmiri insurgents only. In my view 26/11 also generated from Kashmir issue. If India is able to resolve the Kashmir issue taking Pakistan into confidence, there won't be any threat from the insurgents. Otherwise, there would not be any terrorist threat for it I believe. You agree or not in my analysis or view India would be the target of insurgency until and unless Kashmir issue is resolved.
Arindam Mandal : Masud Khan first accept that terrorism ger societal support from large number of muslims without accepting the fact u cant rectify problem with in religion..it is not that u cant ooint finger at religious practices...
Masud Khan What is the point of being anonymous if you're not threat to anyone ! @ Satabdi Rc
Arindam Mandal What is your standpoint in kashmir issues..it is given to india by raja hari singh...why we should involve pakistan in our unternal matter...it is none of pakistan's businees...though u might support pakistan for obvious reason.
Husyn Sherik : Masud Khan. Even if the Kashmir issue is solved the 'Peace Activists' are not going to lay down their arms. Their main aim is to establish the rule of Allah all over the world. Once Kasmir issue is solved the Peacekeepers will target another piece of Dar ul Harb...
Masud Khan: I don't think any Muslim support terrorism or killing innocent people. But if a persecuted community try protect themselves in whatever way they can from the perpetrators as in case of the Palestinians, would you call them terrorists? I would rather say they are at unequal war not terrorism. You need to cure this kind of ills around the world first. You should give/ensure people's rights. The injustice and persecution like this might be a reason behind some people's sympathy towards the groups like Al-Quida. If you remove the injustice and persecution of people, support for Islamic jihadists will be diluted I believe. @ Arindam Mandal
Fazal Ahmadi:@Husyn Sherik "Even Muslims begin to wake up to the fact that ISIS is real islamic and apply literally Islam… Egyptian TV Host Ibrahim Issa: Nobody Dares to Admit That ISIS Crimes Are Based on Islamic Sources." Wrong 100% lies just an attempt to tarnish the beautiful face of Islam in entire video "Ibrahim Issa" blamed and cursed the so-called clerics of Jamia Al-Azhar (world renowned Islamic University of Egypt) for not to come out in public and say that whatever ISIS is doing in the name of Islam is absolutely wrong. Indeed worth praising Mr. Ibrahim Issa. In this way a particular section of our society is working to spread hate against Islam and Muslims of India. God knows on whose behest they are doing all these. CL must stop this type of post and ban those whosoever sow the seeds of hatred amongst Indians.
Sarbani Roychakraborty : In a way justifying AlQaida Masud Khan.
Masud Khan : @ Husyn Sherik , I think the Islamist or Jihadist won't get public support even if they try to establish Darul Harb as you mentioned. In that case they would need to enforce it which they won't be able unless they get huge support from the super powers.
Husyn Sherik : 4 Egyptian youths face trial for 'insulting Islam' by making fun of Islamic State (ISIS) Try to understand that to make fun against the Islamic State (ISIS) means to make fun against Islam, because ISIS are the true Muslims who follow the real teaching of Islam. Dec 12, 2014; Indonesian newspaper editor accused of blasphemy over anti-ISIS cartoon, face five years in prison. Feb 8, 2013; 5 Moroccans were sentenced for 6 yrs in prison for mocking Islamic State (ISIS) in their YouTube video. http://www.foxnews.com/.../egyptian-youth-face-trial-for.../..................Egyptian youths face trial for 'insulting Islam' by making fun of ISIS
Four Christian youths and their teacher appear...
Masud Khan As I may recall, about a couple of years ago, a Dewbondi authority declared that Islam doesn't endorse killing innocent people in the name of Jihad. @ Fazal Ahmadi
Soumya Chatterjee Kashmir is just an excuse for Pakistan to trouble India. Even if it is solved, terrorism would continue.
Husyn Sherik British Muslim Cleric Admits on BBC hard talk that killing Non Muslims is legitimate in Islam.
Anjem Choudary: Killing of Non Muslims is Legitimate,It is very easy to defend Islamic...YOUTUBE.COM
Masud Khan I don't think so. If there's no Kashimir issue I believe they will come forward for business and other interests. Soumya Chatterjee
Masud Khan I haven't listened this video but I know that killing non-muslims be legitimate only in the war. @ Husyn Sherik
Fazal Ahmadi For those who looks for the opportunity to bash Islam.
Fazal Ahmadi For those who try and traces all sorts of nonsenses to blame Islam.
Islam's message of peace is universal - Historic address at European Parliament
Pathikrit Payne yes we are witnessing PIECE all around....PIECES of dead bodies...
Husyn Sherik www.historyofjihad.org/
Fazal Ahmadi For those hatemongers who try to tarnish the beautiful face of Islam.
Kinjal Das your image is already tarnished... what can we do.!!
Sujit Sanyal: Arindam Mandal - I have absolutely NO problem if police identifies and has evidence that and ISIS operator/sympathizer is hiding in any minority community. Flush the bugger out I say and milk him for all information you can get and then put him behind bars - absolutely no problem. But please do that even if that bugger is from the majority community. Finally, without targeted information available to law enforcement, surveillance of minorities cannot be accepted as an official practice. It would then become a tool for harassment and at the least, invasion of privacy.
Sujit Sanyal : Masud Khan - If you believe the Pakistan would behave itself if the Kashmir issue is solved, sir, I think you are living in a fool's paradise - pardon me for saying it. Pakistan has time and time again admitted that Kashmir is the best reason they hav...See More
Masud Khan Even if you are right, Pakistan knows that it has not that capability to defeat in a war without it's master(s) support. And the master(s) won't come forward unless they have their own serious interests. So they might not venture. But India should be prepared for it's defence whatever it is.
Sujit Sanyal : Given the India's border issues with China and the geopolitical situation in South China Sea and Pakistan providing China with a quick access to the Arabian Sea (via China occupied Kashmir), China will pretty much go out of its way to help Pakistan needle India to no end. The way I see it is Pakistani government is running a riot on its own citizens. They have been left in the lurch in poverty while billions are wasted in war preparations against India and the general stashing their load in overseas bank. Look at Pakistani economy. Even their own people are wringing their hands seeing the progress of Indian stock market. India too was poor and did some boot strapping, but not Pakistan. Why? India's foremost mission is to build itself, not destroy Pakistan, the reverse is true for Pakistanis.Take Kashmir off the table, Pakistan will cease to exist and their government, defense and ISI knows that too well.
Pathikrit Payne Writing that India might be under threat from ISIS is anti National? Who decides nationalism then? LAMPOONS OF CL ? Would RAW Head need CERTIFICATE of NATIONALISM from the JOKER who made this POST ? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../artic.../47113457.cms
ISIS presence in Af-Pak region cause of concern for India: RAW - The Times of...
TIMESOFINDIA.INDIATIMES.COM
Pathikrit Payne Another post for the JOKER>..http://www.oneindia.com/.../isis-module-in-madhya-pradesh...
ISIS module in Madhya Pradesh: Sinister plot busted
A module that was busted in a joint operation by the...
ONEINDIA.COM
Pathikrit Payne NOw decide who the real Anti NAtionals are.....Another one for the JOKER..
First Islamic State ‘module’ busted, 5 held in MP: Police,The cell is the Islamic State’s first known affiliate...INDIANEXPRESS.COM
Sudarshan Sanyal : India just needs to take care of itself, Pakistan is in self-destroy mode but that is not what India wants. We just have to be careful and take care of ourselves.
Let us hope that before the end of this century, things will improve on all sides of our border.
Our Army and our Govt. are doing a commendable job, there's no doubt about it. Hate mongers will be defeated at any cost.
Sujit Sanyal : Sudarshan Sanyal - Pakistan is indeed in self destruct mode. They will go the same route that Soviet Union did - despite their war capability, with no sustainable economy to support it, the entire structure will crumble. But with Pakistan, their foxy leaders, Musharraf in particular, they reaped billions by hoodwinking US. Now they are on to the Chinese milk. But China is not US. The milk supply will only last for so long. If it hadn't been these outside finances, that country will have auctioned off by now.
As for any country's relationship with its neighbors, sad to say, might matters. Other than maybe the civilized nations of Europe, gentlemanly agreement and formation of a common union for betterment of all, is not possible. Might is the decider, like it or not. For example, say India was Russia, then the border dispute would have been signed, sealed and delivered a long time ago. On that quarter, India has to ramp up to match China and also send a clear message to neighbors who mean India harm.
Pathikrit Payne A fanatic does not need an econmy to fight a war....US with a $17 trillion economy could not defeat Taliban of an impoverished Afghanistan....this is the basic which people need to understand....problem with us is that we define eevrything from our perspective....
Sujit Sanyal : About the Army, I think the problem is that the government is not giving the defense forces the power and freedom they need to get the job done. I believe that if they had, India's defense and offense capability would have been much more robust that what it is today. Kickbacks in every defense deals, callous disregard for border security for a long period had diminished the capability of defense forces, they have been pretty much left at the mercy of the enemies. Latest CAG report of 2 weeks ammo supply, can you beat that?
Pathikrit Payne Sujit Sanyal? Any idea for how many days ammo shud be in hand ?
Sudarshan Sanyal Rightly said, Sujit Sanyal.
Pathikrit Payne THe last time the WWR was defined was in 1980's ..thngs have changed manifold since then....while WWR shud be more than 20 days ( not 2 weeks) no full fledged war in today's era wud last for more than that period...if it lasts....world is over...
Sujit Sanyal : Pathikrit Payne - I am no defense expert and so can't really answer your question competently. But sufficient that CAG has raised the red flag. I am sure that that institution did its homework before raising the issue. The rest of the people like me are surely entitled to rely on that report are we not? Perhaps you could enlighten us on this? And yes, I am aware of the decision that plays on inventory with obsolesce as a consideration. That would also put in the equation the capability of ramping up the production facilities in case of a war. That we have seen what happened during Kargil.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Meanwhile, we Indians should gather moral strength, motivate our citizens to believe that India can handle any adversaries which might come in its way, whether from inside or outside, Sujit Sanyal.
Pathikrit Payne :CAG does so based on set parameters....parmeters hve not changed for 3 decades....can u judge today's computers with 1980 parameters??Issue is not abt WWR but of obsolescence
Sujit Sanyal :Agreed ... what about a two pronged war? Does that have any bearing on the inventory? How come even a conflict like Kargil had India running to SA and Israel for replenishment of ammo? That's wasn't even a full scale war.
Sudarshan Sanyal : Sujit Sanyal, whether India has 2 weeks supply of ammo or 4 weeks, that's a secondary issue, most important is defence preparedness, which India always had and still has.To thwart ISIS, even 7 days ammo supply is more than enough, my post was about ISIS and not Pakistan or China.
Sujit Sanyal : Another thing ... I think we are digressing ... I am responsible to some extent for it responding to the Kashmir question ... so gentlemen, let's get back to the topic of ISIS.
Pathikrit Payne : Amazing tha people statting 7days ammo wud be enough for ISIS....it takes 13 years to win a war against insurgency.....J&K problem not yet solved.....even after 20 years....and there are enough sympathisers inside..those who are joinign en masse to go to Syria and fight for ISIS....Cant debate with ignorants....